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Randy -
As much as I enjoy this sport there is so much B- Sh- surrounding it that I found myself not knowing where to begin with a response to your article. I apologize that my comments may not seem to flow in any organized manner:
It begins with 15 year old players weighing in at a measly 150 lbs. getting college commitments before their skates even touch the ice in a single junior game. It's about young players leaving home to be raised by other families in pursuit their dream because somebody said they needed to play junior hockey if they wanted to play college hockey. It's about business owners who care more about their investment than the stability of the players' living situation. It's about billet families who think they're going to make money by housing a player or two. It's about coaches who care more about their winning percentage and next coaching position than they do about the morale of his players. It's about an 18 year old high school graduate moving teams 3-4 times in one season because USA Hockey no longer protects his vulnerability to trading rules. It's about the third wealthiest man in Japan who asks his own players to feed themselves on road trips and blames it on the Tsunami in Japan. It's about buses that break down and roach motels. It's about bi-polar coaches who drop players and send them across the country instead of getting to know them and winning their loyalty. And, yes, it goes all the way to the Top Prospects Tournament where a number of dedicated and talented '92 birth year players worthy of D1 attention are not given a key opportunity they deserve because a coach is infatuated with the same players as usual.
So the point of my response is this: Whoever said that fairness, honor, truthfulness and integrity were a part of junior hockey? The anger and anguish of the players not selected for Top Prospects is just a continuation of the norm and doesn't surprise me. The tournament will be over and the season can continue. It's junior hockey and it sucks.
Ouch!...in all this -- these last 2 plus more subject headings I have posted on -- I guess I must confess and say that my dream is to own a Junior Hockey franchise in about 5 years...good luck, eh?
The success of the Jamestown power play should have eliminated a couple players from Top Prospects right there...
Mateo, a post by, I think her name was Connie, quite a while back, vented much of the same views about Hockey at the AAA youth level where her family was...and she ended with something like "its an ugly sport"...I can only say at this point I wish I could sit and have a couple of beers with you, maybe while waching a game and after (hey all, it may sound like it, but I'm not a boozer!)...it sounds like this probably, no, actually would not change your or my perspective either way...
...anyway...I, and Im sure many could of/can or did take a left or right on all this...heck I'm no writer...something like that man...
Hockey by itself is not an ugly sport. Junior hockey and all the money hungry gold diggers who thought it up are ugly. Let the kids graduate high school and move on to college like every other sport. If you're serious about owning a junior team my question for you is this. What is your true motive? If you want to make money quit now. It's not going to serve you in the end and will never serve the players. A very non-gratifying course.
Oh no my friend...break even at $0 in that account or loose some on my end is all i would hope for...and from what i can tell, that would be an exception at T2 or T1 and a lot of T3!...lol...(no, i wouldn't be on the ice at practice, well, maybe a few lol)
Mateo,
Good luck with that and I don't agree.
Of the nearly 400 junior teams on the continent, I would say that 360+ are operated with good intentions.
Sure we are going to have a few bad apples, every cross section of society has them and sports are no exception.
Most are in the game for the love of it... very few of us have been able to carve out a niche and make a lifelong career from it. I feel blessed for being able to do what I love to do.
I knew my comments would not be popular with the founders of Junior Hockey News. After all, if junior hockey didn't exist (as I propose) then what would you all write about? May I ask Stephen, have you ever been a junior player, billeted a junior player, are you the parent of a junior player, coached a junior team, owned a junior team? This is a serious question as I am unfamiliar with your background. Thanks for the response.
Not a junior player or parent.
Billeted? Yes, I had as many as eight at my house at one time.
Coached? Yes, on the bench for a USA Hockey National Championship in '96.
Owned? Yes, owned one of the worst Western States Hockey teams of all-time... and lost my a--.
Worked? Yes
Since 1998-99 I've stayed as close to the game as possible. As a consultant and as a pain in the butt.
I found my niche on Glassrattler.com, started this site back in 2009, took a few college classes to be a teacher while trying to be a better writer. A week of student teaching at a local high school set me on the path of just doing this...and the rest is history.
Your opening sentence was all I needed to hear.
And the second sentence about billeting 8 players...were you paid a billet fee by the families of all eight players? Did anybody from the junior team or USA Hockey ask you why you wanted to do this? By the way.... why did you? Serious question.
Mateo
Billet fees? I did it for free because I owned and operated the team. Player fees? We tried to get $1,000 for the entire season and that was it. Not everybody was able to pay.
Get off your high horse. I've DONE more than my fair share to elevate junior hockey long before I started this site. JuniorHockey.com is just the gravy.
Since we are asking questions, why is it that NOTHING appears when we google your name or email address?
Mateo is hardly the only person here not using his real name.
posted Jan. 25th, 2013 - 7:35am
Hockey SP says:
Scheppelmen is one of the hardest working athletes out there. It's a shame that his own coach didn't give him the recognition he deserves.
Thanks
Rich Tremblay (my real name)
Rich aka Hockey SP,
Which is why I say the coach should not be in a position to have to bypass his own players. It's why I think selection by committee is the better way to go.
Regards,
Randy
...better way to go... and the North American Hockey League are generally never used in the same sentence.
We are at the end of January already, and the NAHL has yet to release the format or location of the Robertson Cup.
The one fact I can tell you is this, the event will include the NA3HL, NAPHL, and possibly even the new NA-MiniMites-HL. All teams will be forced to go through a round-robin for seeding, a day off to rest, than onto the the semi-finals, and finals.
The event will utilize the maximum number of room-nights because we know that SOMEBODY is getting that 5-6% commission.
Randy, as a coach, I hate prospect games, all-star games and all individual awards, anything that divides a team's unity impairs winning since hockey is the ultimate team sport. Interestingly, one year I asked my players if we could have a lottery for such things and they did not want too.
Mateo, honestly, I feel your anger and emotion through your posts but I think you're being unfair to Stephen. Stephen and Randy are the good guys in junior hockey, constantly looking out for players, asking the tough questions to owners and league management and questioning rules that are not for the benefit of the players. As opposed to other hockey writers who are just PR guys for the big clubs and never question anything. On your son the 92 (or someone close to you), I am very sorry that he did not make it to the Prospects game, it obviously meant a lot to you, however, I think you are putting too much emphasis on this one event. As I have said in other posts, I do speak to D1 coaches fairly regularly and no player is given a scholarship because of an all-star game or prospect game. If your son is playing in the NAHL and is a 92, he has been seen by every D1 scout (usually college asst coach) for many years. While it is true that college players are getting older and older (check Union College's average roster age last year), a 20 year-old should be a junior in college by now and there are many college opportunties (D3 & ACHA) that may provide your son a great college and hockey experience.
My suggestion is that you reach out to some NAHL or USHL coach you know and ask for a scouting report on your son. You would be surprised how much info you can get by asking and being nice.
Good luck to your son, I wish him the best.
Don't be too hard on Mateo, he makes some good points. Having experienced junior hockey as a player and as a parent - as well as a high school coach sending players to juniors - the system has its flaws. This site makes its hay exposing those flaws.
Some problems as I see them:
1) ASAH age classifications do not dovetail with school age classifications, one reason kids are forced to decide between what's best for them for school vs. what's best for them for hockey. Helps USAH for international competition, screws everyone else.
2) Colleges, even most D3, tell kids they recruit 20-year olds. For a kid that has to work to succeed in school, the year, two or three off from studies reduces his chance of success in school when he eventually gets there as a hockey player (or not).
3) Not enough opportunity at the college level. The funnel narrows at the top in this sport like no other. An intiative to add more signicantly more NCAA D1 and D3 teams would go a long way toward serving the hockey players we raise and develop. A strong high school age player that wants to go right to school should have decent college options. What's the point of the adding more and more junior teams if there's nowhere to go from there? Change the focus to adding more college options and start breaking the logjam.
4) The NA scouting/tryout system is a joke. Why not have week-long regional league-sponsored camps with open invitations to see all kids interested. Cut down or separate by talent each day so the cream rises and others can be identified by lower levels as potential players. Make it mandatory for all teams, eliminate their separate fundraiser tryout camps. Huge numbers of kids, share the pot among teams, charge lower level leagues to participate, etc. Kids will make or break it on their own and not be as subject to the whims of the good ol' boy system, plus more kids can afford to show up and put their best foot forward.
Can you imagine if football and basketball ran their sports like hockey? How many of those kids would be able to afford/survive the merry-go-round of tryout camp fees, travel, pay-to-play, leaving high school early, taking years off between high school and college? It would be the end of those sports as we know them.
Kirk, nice post, indeed, football does not make kids wait 1, 2 or 3 years before they go to college so why does hockey? And, statistically speaking, the longer anyone stays out of college, the less likely they will attend college. This is my biggest issue with college hockey. I might add that when I played back in the 80's, they were more D2 teams, why doesn't College Hockey Inc. focus on creating a robust D2 (& D3) division. To me it's absurd, making these kids wait so long to attend college. Why not have kids play 10 years before they go to college? They will be way better right?
One can only imagine the development...
Mateo Stannard writes:
I knew my comments would not be popular with the founders of Junior Hockey News. After all, if junior hockey didn't exist (as I propose) then what would you all write about? May I ask Stephen, have you ever been a junior player, billeted a junior player, are you the parent of a junior player, coached a junior team, owned a junior team? This is a serious question as I am unfamiliar with your background. Thanks for the response.
All I did was answer his questions...
It became quickly apparent that he believes I am not worthy to be a writer because I did not play in one of these junior leagues or have a child that played.
I wonder just how many junior owners have actually played junior.
Mateo also challenged that we had as many as 8 players in our home at one time and assumed I was cashing in on the billet fee. What billet fee? I think one parent helped out to the tune of a few hundred dollars a month, but he had his own room in our house. Everybody else was in the garage that we converted to a bunk-house with four bunk beds.
I'd spend as much as $1,000 a week to feed these kids and they were fed well. People can yap all they want about me, I don't care, but don't ever try to accuse me of under delivering on my end of the bargain. I took care of the players then, and I take care of the guys now.
Whoa. I missed all the fun until now. I didn't mean to sound challenging of Stephen's expertise (my bad.) But I am definitely challenging numerous aspects of the current junior hockey system that is in place. Thanks to both Stephen and Randy for being the watch-dog and for providing a means for raising questions through this website. I am a big Randy fan and will work on liking Stephen more (he's a little feisty.) And I still think anybody who wants 8 hockey players in their house at one time might also be a little loopy (that was a joke...) But anybody who sticks his neck out this far on behalf of the players can't be all bad either.
Thanks for the nice words, all.
As for Mateo calling Steve "feisty" -- that's one of the nicer adjectives used to describe my chum. The descriptive words linked to Steve that I often hear are not nearly as flattering.
Feisty is much better than *******, bastard, ****, **** head, and my personal favorite, Frankenfeld's business partner.
I appreciate this site for the work that Stephen, Randy et al put in so that we may be better informed to the inner workings of Jr hockey. I've been around hockey my entire life and I'm still learning things from the boys here. Thank you.
Kirk- Well said...agree 100%
I am no big fan of All-Star games either as someone or many feel slighted.If this is to showcase players for the scouts to see then let the scouts make a list of players they want to take a look at.Then let the coaches fill the remaining spaces.At least the scouts would get to see the players on their radar screen at one time.And it may not be that the best players would be there.Being the best players in the league those scouts already know about them.Then , what do I know.
Robert,
Very, very good points.
Regards,
RR
So the NAHL decides to hold a weekend to spotlight its better players and some people think that's a bad thing.
Michael Bourne,
Thanks for the nice words.
Regards,
Randy
There is really no true method of picking all star game players. It is inevidible that some deserving candidate gets left off the team. The great thing about hockey is that the better players get recognized no matter where they play. My question to both Stephan and Randy is, why get so uptight when questioned on certain points? A difference of opinion is healthy for a good debate, as well as it opens up an understanding on why a certain point was made to start with.
When you write a story that is opinioned based, there are some out there that may view the story from another angle.
I'm thinking maybe it would be nice if room service brought me a straitjacket
Why not have a NAHL 92 Showcase ?
Also maybe the players mentioned as not being picked, maybe the coaches know their grades are not college level and won't get them through the NCAA clearing house.
Also - remember in Basketball, Michael Jordan got cut from his High School basketball team his junior year of high school.
Motivation can elivate ones ability beyond imagination.
Hockey is just a step in life that teaches life is not fair, it teaches, adversity and what you do with it and learn from it.
Good luck to all.
It's a great game - a great teacher in life.
John,
Good points made. Very good points.
"Word Up"...(Cameo" version),...Urban dictionary
John:
Good points, but Michael Jordan never got cut in high school - he just didn't like it that he had to play JV with the rest of the sophomores before starring on varsity his junior and senior years. Not as sexy as the "Jordan was cut in high school" myth, but still a good lesson about working hard while waiting your turn - got to be ready when the opportunity presents itself. See article below.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magaz
I stand corrected in detail that Jordon didn't make the cut for the Varsity squad.
Sub quote "Jordan had been wildly competitive before he had been cut [sic], after the cut he seemed even more competitive than ever, as if determined that it would never happen again."
That being said......."Motivation can elivate ones ability beyond imagination."
FYI - My son didn't make an all star team one year and talk about Motivation...... comes back the next year, gets chosen for a regional team, gets to fly across country and scout's comments were "Not the fastest skater but rarely out of position, great size and hands, does things coaches ask for and sees the game. Only player to wear a business suite to and away from the rink and very professional"
Mean something ? Yes - its' called details. That was years ago but if there are players that read this - motivation ? If your playing - no one questions heart, keep motivated, work on your details. Not only hockey but, the scout noted "only player that wore a business suite to and from the rink and very professional"..... the details are noticed off the ice just as much as on the ice fellas.
Good luck and hard work will get you somewhere farther in life more than not.
posted Feb. 11th, 2013 - 12:33pm
Jeff Wood says:
Catching up on some reading. These posts raise some great topics regarding junior hockey. I wonder what the stats are for players aging out of juniors that receive no NCAA commitments. As said during one reply we have over 400 junior teams and growing and by my guess less than 1000 NCAA spots a year. I see rankings of teams all the time based on strength of play and wonder if the correlation to number of commitments a team has necessarily means success on the ice.
It is probably impossible to do an analysis since teams don't post everything. Especially they don't like to advertise it when a player does not succeed in getting a commitment. As a parent that stat has more meaning than a win loss record and league championships.
Just wanted to thank Rich Tremblay for his words of encouragement. Just found this blog now or would have posted sooner.
As for the content of the blog, since my son was one of the slighted players, I agree that the selection process is flawed. I wouldn't expect a college commitment out of a single showcase event but the exposure does help the deserving players.
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