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Heard it through the grapevine - Junior Hockey News


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Published: Tuesday, 22 Jan 2013
By: Randy Russon

So, we know that the Minnesota Magicians will begin play in the North American Hockey League effective the 2013-2014 season under the ownership of Scott Krueger, Scott Meyer and Joe Pankratz.
  
We also know that the Magicians will play their home games at Richfield Ice Arena, which can seat 1,800 in its main facility. 

And we have been informed that the Magicians already have a website: www.magicianshockey.com

What we still don't know is who the coach of the new NAHL team will be, though we suspect that it might be someone connected to Exceed Hockey, a year-round training centre that was co-founded by Meyer and Pankratz.

In fact, we are of the notion that the Magicians have already hired their first-ever coach but are waiting for the right public relations moment to announce who it is.

The reason we think that Minnesota has already hired its coach is because a current NAHL bench boss told me that he inquired about the position but was told by a Magicians official that it has already been filled.

NOR-ONT MARKET

I know of at least two NAHL teams -- one in the North Division and one in the Central Division -- that are already planning to take advantage of the new four-player import rule by hiring Canadian-based scouts.

Rather interestingly, both teams plan on having their scouts based in northern Ontario, which they feel is an untapped market flush with under-rated players.

"There are markets close by a number of NAHL teams, in particular northern Ontario, where there are midget-aged kids and players already drafted (by the Ontario Hockey League) who want to keep their (National Collegiate Athletic Association) eligibility and the reality is the North American Hockey League offers a northern Ontario kid a much-better opportunity to get a Division 1 commitment than playing in the Northern Ontario Jr. Hockey League or Superior International Jr. Hockey League would," is what a coach from a Western Collegiate Hockey Association school told me.

CHILL IN THE AIR

The NAHL's Coulee Region Chill has its own weekly show which airs via the Coulee Region Sports Network. Hosted by Rik Franke and Scotty Gran, the Chill Coach's Show airs Wednesdays at 6 p.m. CST on the CRSN.

I was a guest on the January 16 edition of the Chill Coach's Show, a lively, informative, hour-long program that is broadcast from a Buffalo Wild Wings location and features Coulee Region coach A.J. Degenhardt and players.

You can link on to the Chill Coach's Show on the CRSN through the Coulee Region team website via www.nahl.com.






Discuss:

posted Jan. 22nd, 2013 - 7:13pm
Randy Russon says:
Sources are saying that co-owner Scott Meyer will also serve as head coach for the new Minnesota Magicians who will begin play in the North American Hockey League effective the 2013-2014 season.

posted Jan. 22nd, 2013 - 7:44pm
Billy Bonney says:
Minnesota might have been better off to persue a Coach who has proved himself at this N.A.H.L. level such as Dan Dakawa who many fans here do not think will be back with the Ironmen next year due to contract issues.

posted Jan. 22nd, 2013 - 8:28pm
Mateo Stannard says:
Pursue Billy.

posted Jan. 23rd, 2013 - 11:52am
Ken Blake says:
.It would be a shame if Coach Daikawa left the Ironmen as he has built this team up from last place to tie for first place at present . However change is a big part of Junior hockey and the Ironmen have a good organization in place. As far as this Coach for the new Minnesota team - Scott Meyer - I have never heard of him and a Co-owner also being the Coach spells trouble if you ask me.

posted Jan. 23rd, 2013 - 12:53pm
Adam Janik says:
This Minnesota team would have been better off joining a Canadian junior league. The fact they joined the NAHL makes me think they will be gone in 1-2 years. Turnover rate is just too high. Business model at Tier 2 level isnt sustainable for most teams. Yes, there are teams that have done well and continue to do well, but we see too many teams come and go with the quickness here. Just my opinion so before people jump down my back, relax.

posted Jan. 23rd, 2013 - 12:57pm
Stephen Heisler says:
So Adam, based on your opinion, if the professional Reading Royals drop from the ECHL to join the NAHL, they are doomed? What did you feel about Johnstown's chances at the beginning of this season?

posted Jan. 23rd, 2013 - 1:15pm
Adam Janik says:
Stephen,
I think the difference is Reading and all the other echl and minor league teams looking to switch are better prepared and are moving down to a more financially attainable league than the minor pro ranks. Johnstown, like others who have done well have the support and solid financial planning. I dont think we can say that for the majority of NAHL teams. How do you explain the turnover rate in this league? Honestly, explain to me how it is teams come and go here. I know you dont agree but maybe a t3 financial plan would make this league a better, stronger league.

posted Jan. 23rd, 2013 - 2:35pm
Christian Poulsen says:
Adam, I love to follow up on your negative NAHL posts, especially when they end with "just my opinion, relax"...
...your perception and use of the word "majority" as it pertains to NAHL teams (franchises) failing is flat out wrong...
...while you keep shooting you consistantly miss the target...
...while many people other than you or me would be better at any "health" rating of the teams in the North (and the other 3 Divs. for that matter), you can go to the website, go to attendance, and go team by team and tell me how and why your perception and use of the word "majority" is opposite of mine (which is the overwhelming majority of teams is "healthy"...
I'm listening...but yes, of course, relax, its just conversation and my opinion lol

posted Jan. 23rd, 2013 - 2:48pm
Stephen Heisler says:
As long as millionaires are willing to foot the bill for developing NAHL talent, and are willing to maintain the standards, I don't care how much money they lose. What is a big deal to you or me, may just be a tax write-off for somebody else.

Some grown men race cars, others ride Harleys, others buy NHL teams or even minor pros. Frankenfeld has a lock on the other guys. More power to him.

I'd be happy to see 100 NAHL teams playing at the Tier II level, Canada has ten different leagues doing it with a fraction of our population base.


posted Jan. 23rd, 2013 - 2:58pm
Christian Poulsen says:
There ya go...I might not of hit inside the circles but at least I hit paper lol

posted Jan. 23rd, 2013 - 3:45pm
Randy Russon says:
Actually, the number of former NAHL franchises is cause for some concern. The number includes the following, erstwhile NAHL franchises:

1. Alaska Avalanche (Moved to Johnstown, PA)
2. Albert Lea Thunder (Moved to Amarillo, TX, renamed Amarillo Bulls).
3. Alexandria Blizzard (Moved to Brookings, SD)
4. Alpena IceDiggers (moved to Corpus Christi, TX, renamed Corpus Christi IceRays).
5. Billings Bulls (Joined the NorPac).
6. Bozeman Icedogs (Joined the NorPac).
7. Central Texas Blackhawks (renamed Central Texas Marshals).
8. Chicago Freeze
9. Chicago Hitmen Folded on May 11, 2012
10. Cleveland Jr. Barons.
11. Dawson Creek Rage Ceased operations after 2011-2012 season
12. Detroit Compuware Ambassadors.
13. Danville Wings (Moved to USHL).
14. Dayton Gems dissolved after 21 games, roster dispersed amongst remaining teams.
15. Dearborn Heights Nationals (Relocated to become St. Louis Sting).
16. Detroit Jr. Red Wings (later Detroit Freeze).
17. Detroit Freeze (Moved to Chicago, became Chicago Freeze).
Fargo-Moorhead Jets.
18. Fernie Ghostriders (Franchise rights were sold to a Kalamazoo, Michigan based group in 2003; joined the KIJHL)
19. Helena Bighorns (Joined the NorPac).
20. Lone Star Cavalry.
21. Marquette Rangers (Moved to Flint, renamed Michigan Warriors).
22. Minnesota Blizzard (Name changed to Alexandria Blizzard).
23. Motor City Metal Jackets (Moved to Jamestown, renamed Ironmen).
24. New Mexico Mustangs )Ceased Operations after 2011-2012 season.)
25. North Iowa Outlaws (Moved to Onalaska, renamed Coulee Region Chill).
26. Pittsburgh Forge (moved to Toledo, became Toledo IceDiggers).
27. Santa Fe RoadRunners (Moved to Topeka).
28. Southern Minnesota Express (Relocated to become Motor City Machine).
29. Soo Indians.
30. Springfield Spirit (Relocated to become Wasilla Spirit).
31. St. Louis Bandits Inactive for the 2012-2013 Season
32. St. Louis Sting (Moved to Springfield).
33. Texarkana Bandits (Relocated to become St. Louis Bandits).
34. Toledo IceDiggers (Moved to Alpena, MI).
35. Traverse City North Stars. (now Soo Eagles.)
36. Wasilla Spirit.

posted Jan. 23rd, 2013 - 4:44pm
Christian Poulsen says:
Randy is that list over the 37 yr history of the NA? (before I grab a Light and do the same for the USHL and various T3 leagues for comparisons lol)

posted Jan. 23rd, 2013 - 5:02pm
Randy Russon says:
Christian,

Yes it is. Still, it is a lot of teams, many of them in the last few years.

Regards,

RR

posted Jan. 23rd, 2013 - 6:00pm
Christian Poulsen says:
Thx...and just trying to do some comparisons of new, relocted, changed leagues, and actual defunct has me saying it all looks like the "business of Jr. Hockey"...
...do you guys have any idea of what or the # of NA teams that will be "defunct" and the # that will move from the town they are in now next season?...I bet it won't be near the majority...that is my point to my "they joined the NA so they are doomed" boy Adam...

posted Jan. 23rd, 2013 - 6:22pm
John Smith says:
If Adams point was that the Magicians won't make it because they are in Minnesota he is spot in.

How many non pay to play junior hockey teams will have to come through the cities, duluth, st cloud to accept that?

Friday night rolls around...my kids go to east ridge, i went to the u, my wife went to st thomas...they all play on friday night. am i going to go to one of those games, or will i go to the magicians game where i have no ties? Point being - there is far to much hockey in minnesota to support a junior team that needs 1000 fans a night to survive. even if the team was 100% twin cities kids, and each kid on the team brings 5 people per game thats only 100-130 fans per night. Good luck.


posted Jan. 23rd, 2013 - 6:25pm
John Smith says:
I should add - I love the NAHL and the opportunity it provides. There are many many viable markets for continued growth, but the twin cities is not one of them.

posted Jan. 23rd, 2013 - 7:17pm
Stephen Heisler says:
I would suggest another night for this team...a night that does not compete with the U or HS teams.

If they did ALL Tuesday Nights with two-for-one tickets along with $2 Beers, $ Sodas, and $2 Dogs.

Would it be a pain in the backside to schedule? Maybe, but doing so could create a serious niche in an otherwise over-saturated market.

The teams in the division are close enough to bus in, play, and bus back out. Out of town teams can play in Alexandria, Austin, Coulee over the weekend and hit the cities on Tuesday (or even Thursday but we lose the $2s).

A traditional Fri-Sat night schedule? No way in hell is it going to work in THAT market.

posted Jan. 23rd, 2013 - 7:23pm
Christian Poulsen says:
John...no view from here eiher way of how that particular NA team does at the box office either way...
...you would have to go back in the archives and read carefully the ongoing saga of an east T3 (pay to play) lover and NA (free to play) hater (Adam)...(note: my perception of what I read)...vs myself (admited bad speller and pro NA prejudiced).....lvn it!.....ps: is there east T3 stock for sale that I don't know about?

posted Jan. 23rd, 2013 - 7:32pm
Stephen Heisler says:
Janik,
I was thinking...

If you love the EJ/USPHL/NAEHL so much, how would you feel about joining JuniorHockey.com as a featured writer and covering it?

You have a strong opinion and I can appreciate that.

posted Jan. 23rd, 2013 - 8:27pm
Ted Urschel says:
Stephen,

The majority of high school teams here in MN play 1 of 2 alternating schedules. Tuesday-Friday or Wednesday-Saturday. The problem with junior teams in the twin cities is you can't compete with the high school teams. Division III teams here in the cities don't even try to compete with them. Most of the schools average 400-600 people a game and that is mostly the student body. Besides the Wild and Gophers, most people would rather watch a game between Benilde and Minnetonka than St. Thomas vs Gustavus. Let alone a junior team they have no ties to.

posted Jan. 23rd, 2013 - 8:32pm
Stephen Heisler says:
It's not my money...

posted Jan. 23rd, 2013 - 8:37pm
Ted Urschel says:
I wasn't saying it was. Just stating that it's an uphill battle to try and pry people away from their high school hockey here in MN.

If they can make it work, I think it's good because it'll provide more kids the opportunity to play, I just think financially it will be tough.

posted Jan. 23rd, 2013 - 10:26pm
John Smith says:
Christian - I'm relatively new here, so I will take your word before going through the archives. Plus, you were the one to respond to my only other post about the sticks, so I already like ya! I do like the NA too, or what it seems to stand for.

ps: is there east T3 stock for sale that I don't know about?

Christian if that was meant for me I'm not sure. I guess I don't know either then?!

Stephen - I like the outside the box thinking for playing on different nights and trying to separate themselves though. There are not too many high school or college games here on Sunday, Monday, or Wednesday so hopefully they will try and have games those nights. Sunday and Monday would be relatively easy i would think for scheduling purposes?

Ted - Thats an interesting point about the high school schedules and alternating games, I've never noticed. I do know there aren't many games here on Wednesday though...maybe that would be Thursday-Saturday? Agreed with the high schools being by far the biggest draw in the area behind the Gophers and the Wild though. I'd say its not even a close race with the D3 and other Junior teams in the area.

posted Jan. 24th, 2013 - 8:00am
Adam Janik says:
Christian,
Since I can see you have read Randy's post above, ill just copy and paste it again to give you time to think of where I missed the mark. Here you go.

1. Alaska Avalanche (Moved to Johnstown, PA)
2. Albert Lea Thunder (Moved to Amarillo, TX, renamed Amarillo Bulls).
3. Alexandria Blizzard (Moved to Brookings, SD)
4. Alpena IceDiggers (moved to Corpus Christi, TX, renamed Corpus Christi IceRays).
5. Billings Bulls (Joined the NorPac).
6. Bozeman Icedogs (Joined the NorPac).
7. Central Texas Blackhawks (renamed Central Texas Marshals).
8. Chicago Freeze
9. Chicago Hitmen Folded on May 11, 2012
10. Cleveland Jr. Barons.
11. Dawson Creek Rage Ceased operations after 2011-2012 season
12. Detroit Compuware Ambassadors.
13. Danville Wings (Moved to USHL).
14. Dayton Gems dissolved after 21 games, roster dispersed amongst remaining teams.
15. Dearborn Heights Nationals (Relocated to become St. Louis Sting).
16. Detroit Jr. Red Wings (later Detroit Freeze).
17. Detroit Freeze (Moved to Chicago, became Chicago Freeze).
Fargo-Moorhead Jets.
18. Fernie Ghostriders (Franchise rights were sold to a Kalamazoo, Michigan based group in 2003; joined the KIJHL)
19. Helena Bighorns (Joined the NorPac).
20. Lone Star Cavalry.
21. Marquette Rangers (Moved to Flint, renamed Michigan Warriors).
22. Minnesota Blizzard (Name changed to Alexandria Blizzard).
23. Motor City Metal Jackets (Moved to Jamestown, renamed Ironmen).
24. New Mexico Mustangs )Ceased Operations after 2011-2012 season.)
25. North Iowa Outlaws (Moved to Onalaska, renamed Coulee Region Chill).
26. Pittsburgh Forge (moved to Toledo, became Toledo IceDiggers).
27. Santa Fe RoadRunners (Moved to Topeka).
28. Southern Minnesota Express (Relocated to become Motor City Machine).
29. Soo Indians.
30. Springfield Spirit (Relocated to become Wasilla Spirit).
31. St. Louis Bandits Inactive for the 2012-2013 Season
32. St. Louis Sting (Moved to Springfield).
33. Texarkana Bandits (Relocated to become St. Louis Bandits).
34. Toledo IceDiggers (Moved to Alpena, MI).
35. Traverse City North Stars. (now Soo Eagles.)
36. Wasilla Spirit.

I think I hit the target spot on, thanks
And one other thing, for what its worth, if the NAHL went to a pay to play financial plan, I think they would be in a position to be the best league in the country. Not in talent, but as a whole.

posted Jan. 24th, 2013 - 8:36am
Stephen Heisler says:
Janik, forget it.

It's not YOUR money. Obviously every team but one has re-committed for next year (the Wild are going to the BCHL, Fresno is on the fence) so your feeling of a big fiasco are falling on deaf ears.

Take a look at minor pro hockey, should we do away with that level too?

and about that list...
1. Alaska Avalanche (Moved to Johnstown, PA)-- STILL PLAYING
2. Albert Lea Thunder (Moved to Amarillo, TX, renamed Amarillo Bulls).-- STILL PLAYING
3. Alexandria Blizzard (Moved to Brookings, SD)-- STILL PLAYING
4. Alpena IceDiggers (moved to Corpus Christi, TX, renamed Corpus Christi IceRays).-- STILL PLAYING
5. Billings Bulls (Joined the NorPac).-- STILL PLAYING, BUT IN DIFFERENT LEAGUE
6. Bozeman Icedogs (Joined the NorPac). -- STILL PLAYING, BUT IN DIFFERENT LEAGUE
7. Central Texas Blackhawks (renamed Central Texas Marshals).
8. Chicago Freeze
9. Chicago Hitmen Folded on May 11, 2012
10. Cleveland Jr. Barons.-- MOVED TO COLUMBUS AS USHL TEAM
11. Dawson Creek Rage Ceased operations after 2011-2012 season-- STILL PLAYING, BUT IN DIFFERENT LEAGUE
12. Detroit Compuware Ambassadors.
13. Danville Wings (Moved to USHL).-- STILL PLAYING, BUT IN DIFFERENT LEAGUE
14. Dayton Gems dissolved after 21 games, roster dispersed amongst remaining teams.
15. Dearborn Heights Nationals (Relocated to become St. Louis Sting). -- STILL PLAYING, BUT IN DIFFERENT LEAGUE
16. Detroit Jr. Red Wings (later Detroit Freeze).
17. Detroit Freeze (Moved to Chicago, became Chicago Freeze).
Fargo-Moorhead Jets.
18. Fernie Ghostriders (Franchise rights were sold to a Kalamazoo, Michigan based group in 2003; joined the KIJHL) -- STILL PLAYING, BUT IN DIFFERENT LEAGUE
19. Helena Bighorns (Joined the NorPac).-- STILL PLAYING, BUT IN DIFFERENT LEAGUE
20. Lone Star Cavalry. -- STILL PLAYING
21. Marquette Rangers (Moved to Flint, renamed Michigan Warriors). -- STILL PLAYING
22. Minnesota Blizzard (Name changed to Alexandria Blizzard).-- STILL PLAYING
23. Motor City Metal Jackets (Moved to Jamestown, renamed Ironmen).
24. New Mexico Mustangs )Ceased Operations after 2011-2012 season.) -- rejoining in 2013-2014 as Minnesota Magicians
25. North Iowa Outlaws (Moved to Onalaska, renamed Coulee Region Chill). -- STILL PLAYING
26. Pittsburgh Forge (moved to Toledo, became Toledo IceDiggers). -- STILL PLAYING
27. Santa Fe RoadRunners (Moved to Topeka). -- STILL PLAYING
28. Southern Minnesota Express (Relocated to become Motor City Machine). -- STILL PLAYING
29. Soo Indians.
30. Springfield Spirit (Relocated to become Wasilla Spirit).-- STILL PLAYING
31. St. Louis Bandits Inactive for the 2012-2013 Season
32. St. Louis Sting (Moved to Springfield). -- STILL PLAYING
33. Texarkana Bandits (Relocated to become St. Louis Bandits).
34. Toledo IceDiggers (Moved to Alpena, MI).
35. Traverse City North Stars. (now Soo Eagles.)-- STILL PLAYING
36. Wasilla Spirit.-- STILL PLAYING

So of the 36 tams listed, how many have outright disappeared?
1-Central Texas Blackhawks (renamed Central Texas Marshals).
2-Chicago Freeze ( Detroit Jr. Red Wings, Detroit Freeze)
3-Chicago Hitmen Folded on May 11, 2012
4-Dawson Creek Rage
5-Detroit Compuware
6-Dayton Gems
7-Soo Indians (Randy will have to confirm, but I believe they just moved to the NOJHL)
8-St. Louis Bandits

Now, I stay on Frankenfeld's case on a regular basis, but take a look at the changing landscape over the course of his time as commissioner, how many minor pro teams have kicked the bucket?

The NAHL during Mark's time?
1-Chicago Hitmen Folded on May 11, 2012
2-Dawson Creek Rage (Dormancy)
3-St. Louis Bandits (Dormancy)

Now just stop with the BS already.

posted Jan. 24th, 2013 - 8:55am
Randy Russon says:
Steve,
The constant relocation of teams still raises alarm bells to me. Moving from Traverse City to the Soo, for example, indicates that franchise is still alive but it also indicates a failed market, just as in just about every other relocation, Marquette to Flint, Detroit to Jamestown, etc., etc.

...
As for your question re: Soo Indians,

Soo Indians did not leave NAHL for NOJHL. After the Indians folded, the Northern Michigan Black Bears became an NOJHL franchise for a couple of years. They became the Soo Indians, who folded. Tnen a few years later came the Soo Eagles, who stayed in the NOJHL for four years before joining the NAHL.

posted Jan. 24th, 2013 - 9:03am
Adam Janik says:
Stephen,
Its forgotten, however I dont think I was BS'n.
On a different note, I sent you a PM but Im not sure you got it. Its possible you are ignoring me but Id just like to know if Im atleast doing it correctly.

posted Jan. 24th, 2013 - 10:18am
Jim Snead says:
I tend to agree a NAHL franchise will struggle in the Twin City area. Many of the points brought up earlier are valid; competition for the hockey dollar in this market is enormous. There are literally high school hockey games every night of the week, Tuesday, Thursdays and Saturdays being saturated with upwards of 20 possible games on those nights.
With ticket prices for an high school game at $6, and an opportunity to watch two high school hockey heavyweights battle it out versus attending a Junior Hockey game one knows little about, this does not bode well for the Junior team. Mix in the Wild, Gophers, and 5 D3 schools located within 15 miles of the Richfield rink; it will be very tough to attract non friend/family members.
A quick search of the MNJHL website (T3 Junior, with 3 teams located in the Twin City area), did not turn up any attendance figures. Maybe someone else can attest to these numbers? My guess would be 200-300 for a weekend game?
Looking at the numbers for the MIAC (NCAA D3 Hockey), the average attendance for games up to January 19th (date of the Wild 1st game) was 253. This included 1 game with an attendance over 500 fans.

posted Jan. 24th, 2013 - 10:51am
Stephen Heisler says:
Janik,
I have not received anything...

send an email to sh@juniorhockey.com

posted Jan. 24th, 2013 - 1:12pm
Christian Poulsen says:
OK where are we...I just had a physical and nobody can screw with me like that Dr. just did! LOL...soooooo...

John Smith...no...my "is T3 stock for sale" comment was a veiled joke for my man Adam (just wondering if he owns some and if that is the reason he promotes east T3 pay to play and that pay to play should be in the NAHL at every opportunity he gets) (sarcasm), (PS, the NAHL already has a T3 league, its called the NA3HL)

Adam, yea, I should print that list again too...so it sinks into my head...and then maybe I would understand that in the 37 yrs of the NAHL, divided by 36, clearly = the "majority" of teams are going to fail in the NAHL...and the 2 listed teams that are dormant and the 1 belly up during Frankenfelds time clearly shows you are "spot on" (sarcasm)...I also really like your: "if the NAHL were pay to play... would be in position to be the top league in the country, not in talent, but as a whole"?!!...Adam, please don't go anywhere!...

...Randy...granted...a quick look and comparing leagues and team movement in the last 5 years, shows many in the NAHL...I don't think it is cause for alarm...to me, it shows business decisions of: "well, not getting support here, so lets sell to or move there"...the NA will be around for a long time...unless maybe there is a big Junior Hockey "landscape" restructuring...(as always, just my opinion)

...So as a beat up Beer league player, as a fan, as a parent...5 yrs of Juniors with (knock on wood) a 6th coming next season...LVN IT!...THE NAHL (THE Junior Hockey Players League)...

...sorry, I'm an "open book" and being "probed" really gets me blabing...anybodys "buns" clenched right now?

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* Article disclaimer: This site may contain advice, opinions and statements from various authors and information providers. Views expressed in this article reflect the personal opinion of the author, Randy Russon, and not necessarily the views of JuniorHockey.com. JuniorHockey.com does not represent or endorse the accuracy or reliability of any advice, opinion, statement or other info provided in the article, or from any other member of this site.





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